As soon as possible, we shall stop working with PayPal and shall soon ask our supporters to switch to another money transfer service. Here is the story.
The Transnational Foundation, TFF is exclusively people-financed. Our supporters send their sums via PayPal. These payments are existentially necessary for TFF.
Over several years, it has worked fine. PayPal has many positive features and generally works well. However, my experience with one aspect is so negative that I find it reasonable and justified to share it with people who may be in or run into the same situation.
This is also to explain to TFF supporters why they got a message from PayPal that we do not receive their donations for the time being and why, in 2024, we shall leave PayPal behind.
Further, we consumers and clients often come out small and powerless in our struggles with huge corporative bureaucracies – their incompetence, contempt for smaller clients and PayPal’s Kafka-esque treatment of customers in what should be routine matters.
While they probably listen to other large customers, those of us who are small are often treated like dirt.
There is no other way to gather strength vis-vis them but by sharing experiences, warning others and uploading complaints on, say, Trustpilot – where you’ll see thousands of complaints and bad reviews of PayPal, the customer service in particular.
Here is the story.
*) Addendum January 12, 2024: You can now support TFF on Donorbox, one-time or monthly recurring donation:
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Once in a while, PayPal asks you to confirm your own identity and that of the foundation. That happened in September this year, and I uploaded TFF’s original registration document issued long ago by the Swedish tax authority. It was the exact document that PayPal has accepted during preceding years.
This year, however, PayPal’s response was that it was not accepted, no reason given. I called PayPal’s Stockholm office, and they could not explain it. They think that the people at the PayPal HQ in Ireland may want documentation that TFF is a not-for-profit organisation. So, I uploaded the last Swedish Tax documentation showing no tax payments because we have no commercial activity. That is also not accepted.
I then write and ask at the e-mail address europeanservices@paypal.com – on the recommendation of a PayPal staff member in Stockholm. No answer. Three reminders over the months of September to December: still no answer till today. Additionally, Paypal makes it extremely difficult to find a direct email address for their support. One link on its homepage leads you to a page that does not exist…
Fast forward to a couple of days ago. This message suddenly turns up on the account: “You can’t send, receive or withdraw money right now. We need you to provide and verify your information.”
So, our foundation, which is 100% dependent on donations is actively cut off by PayPal from receiving these fundamentally important support sums. And that happens because PayPal has never responded to the letters and reminders I just mentioned which aimed at making PayPal define what they do not accept and what they want.
It would be reasonable to put stern limitations on our account if we had ignored the request to upload the documents. But it is PayPal that does not clarify why suddenly it denies formerly correct and accepted documents and also doesn’t bother to inform the client which document it needs (different from all earlier years) and ignores my letters over three months.
The matter could have been cleared up in no time. But PayPal’s support/service department simply doesn’t work. It is appalling by any standard.
• •
I spoke with yet another PayPal staff member in Stockholm. I am now told that the document uploaded earlier was perhaps not clear enough to read for the automated system; it is clearly readable with the human eye because he tells me that the document they’ve had all the time is the right one. But I need to upload a better photo of the document.
I explain to him that we cannot wait up to 72 hours to get it certified simply because we lose money from our supporters. He kindly says that he will follow up with PayPal’s decision this afternoon, and if the improved document I upload is OK, the limitation on the account will be lifted immediately. He also kindly suggests that he call me up to confirm this during the afternoon.
While I am away from my phone for a few minutes, I find that there has been a call from Ireland. I call back; it is PayPal, and I am placed in a queue. But I gave up after having waited in vain for 30 minutes.
Neither on the Ireland number nor that of Stockholm are you informed about your queue number or expected waiting time; PayPal also does not give you the option that they call you back. You just sit listening to the same melody being played again and again. Since such a phone service is possible – the Swedish tax authorities has it and it takes less than a minute to be guaranteed that it calls you back – Paypal just doesn’t bother to give their customers the best possible service.
Instead, I called the Stockholm office and learned that the call from Ireland was actually from the staff member in Stockholm because the PayPal switchboard is in Ireland – anyhow, he is not available now. Had he only left a message, I would have known it was him and not wasted my time with Ireland…
The lady tells me, after another 16-minute check – that the uploaded document is being checked, and it can take up to 72 hours before they tell me whether or not it is accepted.
Naturally, I told her that her colleague was so kind as to promise to call me back and get the limitation lifted today. To which she states squarely that that cannot be promised by anyone and that her colleague was wrong. “What I tell you now is correct – what my colleague told you is wrong!” (Raised voice). I argue that I find it confusing that she overrules an agreement I have made hours earlier with a colleague of hers.
She answers that she cannot be bothered. What her colleague has said is wrong. Period. The rule is that PayPal evaluates documents and comes back anywhere between some hours and 72 hours. I have to understand what applies, she reiterates. I try once more to explain that I am surprised that she can declare the agreement I have with another PayPal staff member nul and void – given also that PayPal’s deficient verification procedure has already cost us donations.
She replies, “Well, that is what I tell you. Have a good rest of the day!” – and slams the phone.
Here we go again!
Then nothing happens. But the next morning, I got a message that there is a message on our Paypal account. The document has been accepted, but if we are a charity, they need more – including documentation that TFF is a tax-exempt organisation. Whaaat??!! A charity? TFF is by no means a charity, its a registered foundation doing research and public education. We do not hand out money or items to people in need, and we are also not a humanitarian organisation.
I told this to an assistant on PayPal’s chat. Well, it is not a chat – because it takes hours between each message (and PayPal logs you out ever 5 min max). I have to wait for a message that says that what I wrote last now has an answer. The lady here cannot explain why PayPal has invented that TFF is a charity but promises to come back. She also writes – for the first time ever in 3 months – that she understands that this is frustrating and apologises for the inconvenience. Standard formulations, of course!
I respond that we need an end to this ASAP, and certainly not 72 hours from now.
No response whatsoever…
The next day, the earlier explanations are overruled: The reason our document has not been accepted now is that it is too old. PayPal needs a new copy of TFF’s registration document! !
5-6 PayPal staff members never pointed that out! They are obviously not informed about that company rule about document age. It is also not written anywhere on PayPal’s homepage how old an ID document may be. And I have not been told this for more than 3 months. The lady sends me lots of text from the PayPal agreement that I have, of course, not read – it’s irrelevant because the place to tell you how old a document can be is where you upload it, not somewhere deep down in dozens of pages of legal gobbledygook.
Today, December 7, PayPal finally bothered to give me the reason why our registration document was not accepted and our account made unuseable. I consulted with the Swedish Tax Authority over the phone, and they cannot send me a copy of the TFF registration document with today’s date; the reason is that we do not have employees, don’t have any tax relations and no VAT registration. What they have sent me three months ago is a “Proof of Assigned Organisational Number,” which offers the name of the foundation, type of foundation, registration date (1986-01-24) and that we are still an active registered entity.
I upload that, and hours later comes the Theatre of the Absurd reply from PayPal: “Business Registration. We received your company house registration number, but we also need you to upload a government-issued tax exemption document for your charity.”
Charity ! ! ! After all these letters and chat messages back and forth, PayPal insists – against all we have ever delivered – that TFF is a charity and, therefore, that we must upload a tax-exempt status document that simply does not exist for a foundation like TFF.
I protest over this categorisation and upload a document showing that TFF has paid 0 tax last year: No reply whatsoever in a chat that has not been closed.
On December 8, we get the enigmatic message that TFF’s identity has suddenly been accepted and the limitations put on our account have been lifted.
No regret. No apology. No release of the donation people have – tried to – pay to us while our account was closed.
This is the end. As soon as we can, we shall switch to another payment transfer company.
And we sincerely hope that our wonderful supporters will take the trouble to move over there. They’ll all be informed when we have a solution to this problem caused 100% by PayPal.
In summary:
• The process of verifying TFF’s identity has taken PayPal 14 weeks.
• PayPal’s verification procedure is Kafka-esque. You are not told why your uploaded document is unacceptable.
• PayPal decides – wrongly and without any information on our part – that TFF is a charity for which more more identity information is needed. In no way is TFF a charity.
• PayPal’s support/service regarding emails on their recommended email account is way below standard. Nobody ever bothered to answer what was wrong or what other document was needed – over 3 months with three reminders.
• Paypal sends you messages that tell you to go to its Message Center – but there is no way you can send a reply unless you first get hold of a chat assistant – who then act like a robot and is obviously not connected with the Ireland HQ. It comes across as an authoritarian one-way style: “we couldn’t care less about your views or messages.”
• One staff member overruled a – kinder – colleague. Obviously, there is no agreed-upon policy.
• Nobody has regretted, explained or apologised before after 3 months of unparalleled “Schlamperei.”
• In spite of PayPal’s deficient documentation verification procedure, it is the client who is brought to suffer by PayPal’s authoritarian decision to de-facto close down the account despite our documented willingness to deliver the documentation PayPal wants.
• PayPal gave me wrong information about the reason for not accepting our document and took more than 3 months to explain the real reason for its turning down of that document – that it was too old.
• PayPal has rude staff members. One said that I “babbled on”; another slammed the phone when she could not explain her arrogant overruling of a colleague’s agreement with me.
• PayPal’s telephone service is abominable – 20-30+ minutes every time. During this whole affair, I have wasted hours and phone money, and our foundation has lost donations. There is no excuse for such queuing times, except that PayPal prioritises profits to its owners over investing in reasonable customer support.
• TFF will, therefore, switch to another money transfer company as soon as we can.
Note
Forbes Magazine has produced this comparative analysis very recently that shows that there are several other – better – payment processing options.
*) Addendum January 12, 2024
You can now support TFF here – one-time or by setting up a regular monthly donation. Please do!
One Response
Thank you. I started to use paypal a few years ago because it seemed to be easy and quick once you signed up. More recently I have heard of so many organisations (charities) being denied access or treated badly that I decided NOT to use it. Now it is impossible to avoid. Given the choice paypal or card I choose card and fill in the details. More is demanded like date of birth and if they are not all filled in paypal tells you you cannot continue. They also ask you to put in more information to be able to use paypal. I find this intrusive behaviour unacceptable but just using the visa card is not allowed in many cases. Does paypal rule the globe????